Strategies for Entering New Online Marketplaces with Georgia Leybourne

Matt Anderson (00:01.765)
Hello, everyone. Welcome back to Ecom Insights with me. I'm Matt Anderson, my host. On today's episode, we're joined here by the wonderful Georgia Leybourne, an incredible intrapreneur, which we'll find out more later, and also CMO of Linnworks and value partner of Optimizon's. Georgia's knowledge of the Ecom industry is outstanding, with a nice story to match. So welcome to the show, Georgia.

Rael (00:06.472)
and be real.

Georgia Leybourne (00:28.898)
Thank you so much, Matt. Good to see you, Raoul. I'm delighted to be here. And thank you very much for inviting

Matt Anderson (00:35.493)
Now you're most welcome.

Rael (00:37.266)
So let's kick things off with giving our listeners a bit of a breakdown of who you are. And you've definitely got a colorful background, so please do indulge.

Georgia Leybourne (00:49.495)
You know, it's always quite daunting to be invited on one of these things and to be called, you know, this sensational person. It's like scary because I'm actually very, very normal. I do have a bit of a colorful background. And yes, I have been known to call myself an intrapreneur in the past. I often call myself an accidentalpreneur because I'm not too sure quite how it all happened. But I am.

Rael (00:56.666)
You

Georgia Leybourne (01:12.694)
I am definitely one of those people who everything that I've been through, every decision that I've made, every path that I've trodden has got me to where I am today, which is the chief marketing officer of a very healthy, fast growing technology company that is helping retailers to sensationalize their operations and really get them going on marketplace and online retail.

Matt Anderson (01:37.531)
Great, and I know you grew up in New York on the other side of the pond and returned back here to the UK for boarding school. mean, how did that shape your career path, if it's

Georgia Leybourne (01:49.454)
So I would you believe I did go to it. I did live in America for 10 years. I went to American high school. I survived American high school. At one stage I had a very strong American accent, but I've managed to replace that with my dulcet British tones. But basically my father was in the broadcast industry. were

Rael (02:07.071)
wow, okay.

Georgia Leybourne (02:13.282)
typical nuclear family. went over to the States originally in the early 70s for the space program. He was a camera technician down in Cape Canaveral for all of the space elements down there. And then we came back to the UK and then we went back to the US when I was in my early teens and he was working at the NBC and Rockefeller Center in New York City. We were out on the sticks. We actually lived in Chappaqua, which is where the Clintons now live.

Matt Anderson (02:20.141)
wow.

Rael (02:42.567)
Yes.

Matt Anderson (02:42.79)
wow.

Georgia Leybourne (02:43.26)
But we were there first. We were there first. It's official.

Rael (02:45.83)
Ha ha ha ha!

Matt Anderson (02:46.649)
I was over at the Rockefeller Center at Thanksgiving. It's a special place at that time of year, it? Yes. And the trees, enormous.

Georgia Leybourne (02:52.214)
and the lighting of the Christmas tree and the, yeah. And he had a corner office on the fifth floor. So we used to go and watch the lighting of the Christmas tree. was quite a spectacular event every year. So yes, you know, big childhood growing up in the States, you know, out of your comfort zone from a cultural perspective, but learning how to work with Americans, which I think has been very important in later life. I've spent quite a lot of my career working for American companies or Americans.

Matt Anderson (02:58.299)
Wow.

Georgia Leybourne (03:22.119)
And then, yes, came back to boarding school purely, I'm really going to age myself here, came back because I had to start my O levels. I was like the penultimate year of O levels. So now you all know how old I am. Only did about two terms of boarding whilst my parents were getting organised to come home. And then I was a day bug. I didn't really need to board.

Rael (03:45.928)
Right, well.

Matt Anderson (03:46.859)
And you're someone of many talents, including French, tu parles français, is chapeau.

Georgia Leybourne (03:51.998)
Oui, oui, je parle français, c 'est vrai. Yes, I lived in France for a couple of years as well in my early career. I do remember I've got some fond memories that I, during my placement year at university, I went to work for a small accountancy firm. And they gave me this magazine to read like this company brochure to read. And I'm reading through it. I'm like, I don't know what any of this means.

Matt Anderson (04:17.147)
Okay.

Georgia Leybourne (04:17.312)
And I had to go home that night and get out the dictionary, you know, and look up Abonnement to find out that they were subscriptions. You know, it was a scary time, but very, very, very useful to live there, work there and really get under the under the skin of the French and the language.

Rael (04:34.13)
Wow, fantastic. So that's a very colorful background. I love it. And it probably speaks to a little bit of sort of career choices, career progression and line of work and all those sorts of things, right?

Georgia Leybourne (04:46.818)
Yes, but very accidental. I didn't know what I wanted to do when I was growing up. I wanted to be a Charlie's Angel and go into like be a private detective or a stewardess or something glamorous. Farrah Fawcett Majors was like my idol. So I came out of university and slotted into a customer service role originally, then went into pre -sales, then eventually went into marketing.

Matt Anderson (04:57.253)
And why not? Yes.

Rael (04:57.425)
Ha ha ha.

Georgia Leybourne (05:15.254)
And actually I went into marketing because I thought selling would be so much easier if somebody would actually do the marketing properly. I went backwards if you like and got into the marketing side. Yeah, it's true. It's true.

Matt Anderson (05:25.455)
It's a valid point.

Rael (05:28.604)
Those arguments are still very much alive today.

Matt Anderson (05:30.704)
Yes, It's almost like one of our meetings at OptimizeOn. Yeah, well it's parked like that.

Georgia Leybourne (05:39.17)
But lots of history in customer service, project management, sales, business development, partner alliances, marketing, the whole bank shoot. Which is really, I guess, where I've now sort of come to the pinnacle. I think it's the pinnacle of my career. I don't know where else I'd go from here, but we'll see. I'll let you know in couple of years' time. But yeah, putting it all together to try and get the go -to -market strategy right for Linwerks.

Rael (05:58.653)
you

Matt Anderson (06:00.495)
Yes.

Georgia Leybourne (06:08.067)
And also in partnership with you guys, you we do a lot of things together as partners, which are quite fun.

Matt Anderson (06:14.809)
Yes, yes, absolutely.

Rael (06:15.11)
And so I guess where did this sort of intrapreneur tendency or opportunities come up? And I think probably first better to describe what that is and then go into

Georgia Leybourne (06:27.85)
So I've always considered myself to be entrepreneurial, but I've never found an outlet for that, for that desire. I've never found an idea or taken the leap of faith into running my own business. It's just never happened. I've always been employed. I've always worked for a company, but I don't think that should inhibit one's entrepreneurial skills in any way, shape or form. So I call it intrapreneurialism. It

basically taking all of that gut feel, that thinking outside the square box, that creativity and applying it to the organization that you have committed yourself to. And I feel quite strongly about that. I'm quite a loyal person. And I really believe in putting your all behind what it is that you've decided to do at that particular time. And right here, right now, that is the growth and evolution of Linwerks.

for the betterment of our customers across the globe.

Matt Anderson (07:29.939)
Well, I think from an entrepreneur's point of view, I've launched businesses and that's tough to get a business off the ground, but also it's equally tough to get up the greasy pole in the corporate ladder, we say, and fight your way to the top. mean, is that what helped get you up to where you are then, this entrepreneurial spirit?

Georgia Leybourne (07:49.578)
definitely. I've had it my entire life. I've always been the one that put their hand up for the special project at work, who kind of set themselves apart by being a little bit pushy, dare I say, but at the end of the day, if you're not pushing hard enough, you're not probably not getting things done. And I look back and it's, you know, I wouldn't do anything differently, quite honestly. And I'm quite proud of some of the decisions and pivots that I've made through time,

Matt Anderson (08:01.209)
Yep.

Georgia Leybourne (08:20.13)
the most important thing for anybody who is clambering up the ladder in any way, shape or form is be present. Be present and make yourself available and do what you say you're going to do when you say you're going to do it.

Rael (08:32.666)
Yeah, that's such an interesting point. mean, I've heard, excuse me, I've heard quite a few people, probably two or three times, honestly, in the last maybe two, three months, say exactly that, which is if you're just getting started, the most important thing you can do is put your hand up for things. And even if you, you know, you won't fully understand what you're even getting yourself into any of that sort of stuff, but you kind of just back yourself to figure it out and, you know, develop new skills in that. And it just counts for accounts for a lot. And I've been maybe

Matt Anderson (08:33.892)
it.

Rael (09:01.478)
at this point in my career, but so I'm a bit more on the other side, but if there are people putting up their hands to help me with ad hoc things or whatever it is, I mean, it's it's one of the most important things I think you can do if you're starting

Matt Anderson (09:12.783)
No, it reminds me of a quote from Barack Obama and he said, like, you know, there's lots of really intelligent people that he was surrounded by that talked a good game, that knew the right things to do, but never delivered, weren't present and, you know, walked up to the plate and swung and hit a home run. You know, those people in an organization are few and far between. I think, yeah, absolutely. I agree

Georgia Leybourne (09:36.44)
And one of the things I love more than anything about being at this stage in my career is building a team and encouraging entrepreneurialism in them. And I love to find that bright, ambitious, nascent, green individual who just wants to learn and be a sponge and get out ahead and figure things out. Because actually they help me increase my capacity

and I'm helping them by building their career. It's a real joy as a leader to able to offer that back.

Rael (10:08.764)
Yeah,

Matt Anderson (10:10.715)
Yeah, 100%. I mean, it's one of our values on the podcast and also optimize on is be curious really as well. I mean, 100 % is encouraging those people around you to build and be a learn and be that sponge like you say, and you learn as well, know, and be able to do this.

Georgia Leybourne (10:26.604)
Yeah. But doesn't it surprise you how few people are curious? It drives me insane!

Matt Anderson (10:30.935)
Yes.

Rael (10:32.412)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. we could probably have another whole sort of podcast dedicated to that, but, yeah, absolutely. think, you know, there's a large parts of, ways of doing things or thinking have just become so homogenized and it's actually harder to be curious. a hundred percent agree with that.

Matt Anderson (10:48.397)
Yeah, I mean, it takes us nicely to our next discussion point really around the wider macroeconomic environment for e -commerce at the moment. What trends are you seeing? What pain points are you seeing with customers or anything that you're curious about at the moment?

Georgia Leybourne (11:05.838)
I we talked about looking back and not making any different decisions, but I mean, I sometimes wonder if anybody would choose to go into retail at the moment because it's a tough old world. It's constantly changing. You know, they've been through multiple revolutions over the last few years. And if you've survived those revolutions, then you're doing an amazing job. I think.

Matt Anderson (11:14.469)
It's brutal.

Rael (11:21.114)
You

Georgia Leybourne (11:28.074)
There are so many headwinds at the moment. mean, the economic climate is really not one of strength for the retail community. Consumer spending is massively down. Consumers are really, really stretched to within an inch of their life. So price has become a huge priority for them. And that's not always ideal for the retail community. Supply chain challenges have really, really hit hard in terms of getting raw materials to the right place at the right time, but also in terms of

Matt Anderson (11:54.361)
ever since COVID.

Georgia Leybourne (11:55.97)
Yep, in terms of timely delivery and natural disasters or unnatural disasters that occur, war, famine, fire, flood, bridges falling down. It's like every day you wake up, there's something else they have to cope with. But at the same time, they're living in technology fantasy land where it's like this huge candy shop of technology to help them.

Matt Anderson (12:05.671)
we've had it all.

Georgia Leybourne (12:25.44)
at the front end with their sales initiatives, in the middle with their operations, at the back end with their fulfillment and shipment. know, technology, it's just so beautific what technology can do for the retail community today to cut their costs and create those efficiencies, but also to increase their revenue potential. It's like a double -whammy opportunity for them and by heck they need it at the moment.

Matt Anderson (12:50.873)
Yeah, well, just on that point, I mean, you mentioned working together with Optimize on and we're working with a number of retail marketplaces as well, it seems that. And another thing, let alone all the AI and technology goodies that a retailer could be focusing on is another marketplace pops up in Tesco's in the UK most recently, BQ, Range, so and so and so, you know, when's the right time and how should brands really approach this candy shop with

marketplaces as well, know, where do you start, you know.

Georgia Leybourne (13:24.699)
Well, it's a really interesting one because the let's face it, whether it's their own website or whether it's a marketplace or more than one marketplace, this is a really complicated spectrum to be in. And I think there's an awful lot of retailers out there who tackled marketplaces without sufficient knowledge.

to be able to get the most out of them and actually could potentially be putting their businesses at risk if they haven't figured out the if but whens and maybes.

Rael (13:56.936)
Sorry to interrupt there, but like how many of would you say are aware that they don't know? They don't know what they don't know or they do know what they don't know?

Georgia Leybourne (14:05.856)
It's that classic conundrum rail, isn't it? You know, that whole insource outsource, you know, as a marketeer, I am very pragmatic about that which I know, and therefore I'm going to do it myself, agency go away, or that which I'm really not that proficient at, agency come here and help me. But I do think you're, I can't answer that question. I don't know if retailers are.

aware enough of when they need to come to an agency and when they are okay to go it alone or to use the account manager of the marketplace. But we have certainly encouraged a lot of customers who we're encouraging to grow and embrace new marketplaces. We do suggest that they at least get an introductory session via somebody who has expertise. The marketplaces are complex places to be, but get them right. They bring

huge swathes of customer potential through their brand reach and also through their operational excellence. And it's those two things that can really, really slam dunk those retail sales home. If you can find the customer and then if you can satisfy the customer and the marketplace has managed to do that very beautifully when you get it right.

Rael (15:24.232)
So if I'm a brand, mean, how do I know, I guess, when I've sort of saturated a marketplace or a particular channel, right? Because if you're pitching expanding into other marketplaces, I could say, you know, I still think there's some way to go on this existing channel or this existing marketplace, or why don't we just release a few more variations or different products? you know, we could just, we know this channel particularly well. Let's double down on it. And I just think like some of those conversations around,

know, it's worth taking a risk on a new channel. Just interested to have you been part of those conversations? Or what would you say to

Georgia Leybourne (16:01.26)
Yeah, so we absolutely encourage and recommend diversification across marketplaces. And we also have a saying at Linworks that not all marketplaces are created equal. Some of them are domestically focused, others can bring you the international stage. Some are generic, all things to all people. Let's not.

Rael (16:15.048)
Yeah.

Georgia Leybourne (16:25.708)
mentioned the behemoth in the room, Amazon. mean, you know, they are all things to all people, but others are very specialist. So, you know, in the home and garden space, you'd be kind of crazy not to be on B &Q because that's really going to pack a punch in terms of the specific customer profile that you're going after. So we absolutely believe in diversification, but one should only diversify. One should only embrace these additional marketplaces if you've got the

Rael (16:27.93)
Ha ha.

Rael (16:31.954)
Yeah.

Georgia Leybourne (16:51.904)
infrastructure in place to juggle your stock across those different platforms and the knowledge to ensure that you're maximizing the algorithms and the placements and the product positioning. And that's kind of where you and I come in in this partnership is, you you're there to advise and guide and ensure that they are getting that profile right. And we're there to make sure that they've connected the docs behind the scenes and they've got that stock sync in place and they can they can actually fulfill these orders. Match made in heaven.

But you mentioned saturation on a marketplace, and this is where we go back to this macro environment. Today's saturation could be tomorrow's opportunity because those marketplaces are changing and evolving all of the time with regards to their own positioning, reach, brand, markets, et cetera. So where you might feel that you've hit the glass ceiling today,

a change might be forthcoming a week down the road that then opens up a whole plethora of opportunity for you.

Rael (17:53.938)
Yeah, yeah, interesting.

Matt Anderson (17:55.065)
Yeah, you think it's when you know you're adding additional channels that they've all got their own reach and source also strength and different buying profiles. I mean, like eBay versus B &Q versus Amazon, you you've got different you do have different customers. I think the challenge is when you're looking at setting new targets for each of the channels is like a where where as a brand can I have incremental growth? How can I manage promotions off all these different channels? Because you know, you've got

and retailers bobbing in like Hollander Barrett and Boots and Superdrug as well as Amazon and everyone else. You how can you differentiate your promotions to make sure that, you know, you're getting good airtime without losing the buy box on Amazon? Or how can you, you know, get that incremental growth without stealing sales? I mean, we haven't even mentioned our own DTC channel at this point, have we? You know, how do you differentiate all of that really without, you know,

chasing yourself down to the bottom when it comes to price, for example, because you you're winning a 40 % promotion today on Prime Day, know, this for example.

Georgia Leybourne (18:59.33)
Yeah. Well, and there's also that juggling act between consistency across channels so that your customer recognizes you, but also the disparities of the different channels and the way you need to slightly change your positioning to stand out on those channels. that's a, I mean, that's a conundrum that I do not envy of anyone. And that's really where your expertise lies in helping them figure that out. But

Matt Anderson (19:22.999)
Yes.

Georgia Leybourne (19:26.786)
We found in the research that we've done and the customers we've spoken to that there is definitely a propensity towards marketplaces as like the first port of call online for people looking for something. But I believe in what I call the halo effect. I believe that those marketplaces aren't always where the transaction occurs. I think quite often they are the research platform. And then when the consumer has found what they want, they do go for the direct to consumer channel to find

Rael (19:38.706)
Mm.

Georgia Leybourne (19:55.564)
what they consider to be the best deal back with the brand itself. Not always, but you know, I'm considering the strength of D2C and one's own website. There's got to be an element of that happening.

Rael (20:09.702)
Yeah, I think it very much depends on the product. Again, I'm certainly not exhibit a with all this stuff, but I don't necessarily want to direct relationship with my water bottle provider or something like that. Right. I don't want an email every week or whatever it is from them either kind of thing. So yeah, it's a tricky one. And I guess also you're in sort of different states, depending, you know, if you're on, I don't know, a tick tock or Instagram or something like that. It's like, it's

this sort of transaction mode. And so I guess that's what you were talking to earlier around sort of adjusting around the state someone's in or the browsing behavior. Yeah, interesting.

Georgia Leybourne (20:48.044)
Well, there's the frivolous purchase versus the necessary purchase. know, it's, you know, it's the whole consumer state of mind and that whole consumer behavior thing. But there's so much.

Rael (21:00.732)
Yeah. I mean, maybe I'm just more naturally skeptical about building a sustainable business or frivolous purchases, I guess. don't know. Maybe I'm wrong, right? Maybe there tons of these massive companies and I'm horribly wrong on that.

Matt Anderson (21:13.755)
But I mean...

Georgia Leybourne (21:14.104)
So true confession times, feel like I do feel a little bit like I'm in a confessional here. I am the world's, exactly, sorry dad. I am the world's worst, ergo best social shopper. But when I'm having downtime, particularly when I've got insomnia in the middle of the night and I'm just flicking through and something crops up, know, pay palette, done, Apple pay, done. And then the next thing you know, you've got this thing coming through your door.

Rael (21:18.928)
Hahaha!

Matt Anderson (21:19.643)
Forgive me, Father.

Rael (21:24.968)
Yeah.

Rael (21:30.203)
Okay, well there you go.

Rael (21:35.216)
Yeah.

Georgia Leybourne (21:43.726)
And I would say 50 % of the time I've been delighted with that pair of Christmas tree earrings that I purchased. But that bubble hat I ordered was really bad quality.

Rael (21:48.613)
Okay.

Matt Anderson (21:50.383)
Great, just what you need in August.

Rael (21:56.092)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, there you go. So it sounds like I am pretty wrong on that. So there you go. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. In the name of research. That's right.

Matt Anderson (21:58.437)
Yeah.

Georgia Leybourne (22:01.932)
I feel I have to test the market. You know, I'm in this market. I have to test it from time to time. Absolutely.

Matt Anderson (22:07.343)
Well, Timo has been so good at of, know, spamming us all on all the socials as well. The amount of took, which I didn't realise I ever needed has turned up recently. just very good with the advertising there. And also, Amazonia once said to me about your point about, you know, a discovery and well, Google calls it the zero moment of truth of being able to sort of work through the customer journey online.

Definitely Amazon's up there. Two thirds of all customers will actually research products, reviews, and then go and buy them elsewhere. I mean, think marketplaces are really an important part of the journey in the Zero Moment of Truth. when customers are actually discovering more, learning more about a brand, if you're not on these marketplaces, you're not at the races, basically.

Georgia Leybourne (22:58.002)
So back in the days when it was just the store and the DTC online environment, we call that showrooming. What do we call it to marketplaces? We need to come up with a new term for the retail industry.

Matt Anderson (23:04.259)
Yes.

Rael (23:04.317)
Yes.

We'll put that one out for the listeners, I think, yeah.

Matt Anderson (23:11.213)
Yeah, it's that homogenous term omni -channel, it? That sort of seems to incorporate everything, but it doesn't really seem right. I mean, some retailers do have a really good DTC offering that works very nicely with their in -store experience of QR codes and various sort of witty interactive features. But I mean, think, yeah, certainly.

Rael (23:18.319)
Yeah.

Matt Anderson (23:37.165)
Some of the marketplaces like, know, you see in Alipay, for example, join the Euro football really pushing their offering now over in Europe. Definitely, they've really got it nailed over in China, but we're probably a little bit behind the curve here. I mean, I think that's coming where. But, know, but then look at Amazon Fresh have pulled back from their high street environment.

you know, it's a lot of the marketplaces realise that if they're going to get into the physical world of retail, it's a different ballgame altogether with very high costs of barriers to entry and the like. So, yeah.

Georgia Leybourne (24:15.47)
But like with humans in business, think companies have to test things out, try them, and sometimes they won't work, fail fast and move on. Amazon has been, know, Amazon's a little bit like the M25. Everybody hates them, but everyone loves them because actually they're really good and they use it all the time. There isn't a day that goes past that I don't have Amazon knocking on my door, quite frankly. It's just the way of life and they do it really well.

Matt Anderson (24:20.164)
Yes.

Rael (24:21.586)
Yeah.

Rael (24:30.3)
Ha

Matt Anderson (24:31.555)
and they use it all the time.

Matt Anderson (24:44.419)
Yes, think my phone's bleeping at the moment, my ring camera's going off, think they're delivering at the moment. Is there such a thing as too many marketplaces, too much of good thing?

Georgia Leybourne (24:49.407)
you

Rael (24:53.116)
Yeah. Well, like, yeah, and I guess just to like augment that is what point would you start thinking that you've almost hit like diminishing returns or like sort of plateauing at least is there something like

Georgia Leybourne (25:07.109)
So I got introduced to a gentleman the other day who's on 18 different marketplaces and I was quite impressed with how calm he was because I figured that must be quite a juggling act. But he was very open about why he had joined each one and he had done it in a way where he had added each one incrementally.

Rael (25:12.114)
Wow.

Matt Anderson (25:16.923)
I think I know who you're talking about.

Georgia Leybourne (25:30.098)
he didn't do it all at once, it was a of a gradual process and he's constantly juggling what's working and what's not. But he is one of those rare individuals who has a very good grasp of the marketplaces and is very proficient at positioning on all of them and has a very strong technological infrastructure underneath to make sure he can balance that appropriately. So I don't think there is...

too many, so long as you don't take too many for who you are as an organization. And that depends on so many things, size, proficiency, the vertical that you're in, your appetite for growth. You know, we've come across customers who have really gone for it in terms of growth and then fallen over because they couldn't keep up. So you've got to be pragmatic about making sure that you've got all of the moving parts in place that are going to ensure that if that growth takes off, you're not going to fall over.

Rael (26:14.674)
Bye.

Matt Anderson (26:24.089)
Yeah, just I think things like stock and staff to pack the orders. You know, if you're hit with a huge demand growth curve, you you've got to plan for it, haven't you? Yes.

Georgia Leybourne (26:33.226)
And supply, you know, it's all, yeah, you might have the warehouse and you might have the people to pick and pack it, but do you have the stock? And when you run out of stock, are you going to be able to get the stock in in time? I mean, this is where I come back to, if you think about it for long enough, you wouldn't go into this industry because it's really complicated.

Rael (26:50.992)
I mean, I'm speaking with my nozzle head on we deal in bits and bytes in the software world, not in the real world of atoms, as they say. our problems are easier in that sense.

Matt Anderson (26:53.039)
Yes.

Matt Anderson (27:04.923)
I mean, to that point, breaking it down, I what's the ideal process of finding, launching and optimizing a marketplace? know, getting the building blocks in place, as it

Georgia Leybourne (27:16.718)
Yeah, so I mean, the start for 10 is to understand the marketplace that you want to approach and get involved in and have a modicum of understanding about who they are and what it is they're doing because you are fundamentally going to be providing your product within their environment. So is that is that conducive to your brand, to your customer type, to your way of working?

There has to be synergies between the marketplace and your brand in some way, shape or form. Otherwise, you're going to just find clashes all along the way. And then you need to figure out very, very quickly whether or not the connectivity is in place to enable you to upload all of your product information to that marketplace, to sync your stock levels so that you can ensure that you don't unwittingly oversell on one platform. Because that's a customer disaster waiting to happen and that will seriously

damage your reputation in the market. And then, and this is where you guys come in, do you have the knowledge you need to finesse your presence on that marketplace? Have you got the right product descriptions, the right kind of photographs that you're uploading, the right tag categorizations? You know, have you embraced all that that marketplace has to offer?

organically in terms of promotion and then you can also look at the paid element of what that marketplace offers but you don't want to erode your margins too much so there's a balancing act

Matt Anderson (28:46.523)
It's a great point about the content piece. I always liken it to when a number of brands approach our agency or my previous agency, Marketplace, I liken it to the history of a brand's packaging. It's sort of scattered across the interweb and Marketplaces and Amazon. And it seems to be very inconsistent because every time they've launched a new product, there's another piece of packaging out there. it looks horrible from a brand perspective.

How can a brand get on top of that for a really consistent brand experience? know, good, so the packaging and everything is on point and consistent. Yes. Yes. Yes. The gold tinter web. Yes.

Georgia Leybourne (29:25.71)
I know, but when you find out, can you let me know? Because the Interwebs got a whole bunch of old branding of Linwerks that I'm really not happy with. It's a real challenge. you know, I find it's, mean, just stepping away from the marketplaces for a moment, you know, go Google yourself on Google and you'll find all, and you're like, you're kidding. That was 25 years ago. Why is that still coming up? And it's the same

Rael (29:27.58)
Hahaha.

Rael (29:35.514)
so

Rael (29:46.987)
Scared to do that,

Georgia Leybourne (29:55.554)
Brands on marketplaces the moment you put it out there You know, it's not gonna be easy to bring it back again. I Don't want to scare anyone though guys

Rael (30:05.72)
I'm certainly not Googling myself, but I mean, this is one that may be aimed at both of you actually, which is like some of those bigger decisions around, I setting up as a sort of a wholesale relationship with the marketplace versus, you know, like direct to consumer via that marketplace, seller or vendor as it is in the Amazon world. Or, you know, how do you think about that? Or how do you think about actually it's these particular ASINs out of my catalog, I'm just choosing, I don't know, five to

Matt Anderson (30:06.009)
Yes.

Rael (30:34.684)
to start off with them? Is it the ones that simply with like the biggest demand that you're going with? yeah, just how do think about those sorts of decisions when when launching?

Georgia Leybourne (30:45.192)
I think that everyone's very clever who is able to make those decisions because I'm not the one that has to make them, fortunately. But my advice to anybody would be there's going to be an element of trial and error. You've got to have a really, really good understanding of what it is that you're trying to achieve and what it is that you are looking to put up on those platforms. And I always say walk before you run. Don't put your entire portfolio up there.

Rael (30:52.113)
Yeah.

Georgia Leybourne (31:14.482)
start small and small incremental changes will then get you somewhere that you're going. But Rail for me, it's definitely a case of trial and error. And, you know, one of the things with marketplaces is there are so many different ways to interact with them. And again, we come back to that whole

Rael (31:25.341)
Yeah.

Georgia Leybourne (31:33.952)
in -house outsource model with regards to, are you going to be using their fulfillment services? Are you going to be managing it as a drop ship relationship? Are you just going to be putting your stuff out there and then just see what happens? You know, there are so many different ways that they can explore this and it depends so much on the company. Do you have your own fulfillment capabilities and logistics services in -house? Are you working with a 3PL that's reliable?

you what are the cost ramifications of using that third party versus doing it yourself? You know, how much margin do you have available to let go? But there's lot of moving parts.

Rael (32:08.742)
Yeah.

Matt Anderson (32:12.891)
Yeah, think you said. I mean, I think you've nailed it 100 % when you're looking at selection pillar as the Amazonians call it about what what range are we going to focus on and you get this juxtaposition with you the Amazonians when you talk to your vendor manager and they'll go and actually you should just list your whole list your whole product range list list everything you've got everything you've got in your warehouse. Get on get onto Amazon.

It'll be fine, but you know, Amazon doesn't have to deal with all that complexity you've just outlined in the background. know, where's the margin? What brands are introducing customers to your range? Which brands are going to drive your lifetime profit? You know, and like you say, if you've got a manageable range, you can control that the content, the advertising and actually plan stock production. The more complexity in the supply chain, more plates potentially could drop. You're spinning too many plates, I guess.

It's a two house.

Georgia Leybourne (33:07.8)
But that's where I think if you don't have the expertise as an individual, then grab the expertise from the likes of you guys because you could make or break the difference between them losing money and making money. And that's a primary message that we give to people is understand what it is that you're doing before you try and go forth and do it.

Matt Anderson (33:24.815)
Yes.

Georgia Leybourne (33:33.838)
You know, we have some customers who approach us. They've got experience with the platform and they've got experience with somebody else's platform. They know about operational efficiency. They've got all of the information that they need to make a real success of our platform. And then there are others who just scratch the surface. And those are the ones that I want to bring in for a great big cuddle and say, okay, I'm going to hook you up with these people because they will seriously help

max out the potential of this platform so that you can seriously erode the costs that you're currently experiencing.

Matt Anderson (34:10.351)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. You've got to keep turning that stock. It's good old fashioned retail, isn't it? And so I think we tend to go, have a manageable range, go out to find the possibilities within the marketplace and then rationalize for profitability. Then we'll be launching, okay, what's really working? Let's double down on that within the range. Rather than just going, throw everything up and just hope, see what sticks really, which some of the distributors are, I mean, they are.

hats off to them that some of them are very good at it and somehow they make it work. the margins they're working on is so wafer thin that you get it wrong. You lose big time because you're pushing a lot of volume. So yeah, it's just making sure that you're backing winning horses when it comes to margin, I guess. Yeah, and think it's hopefully, know, can automation help brands expand in these new marketplaces to the point about profitability, I guess.

Georgia Leybourne (34:56.813)
Absolutely.

Georgia Leybourne (35:07.608)
Well, mean, automation, let's face it, it's rife and it's the name of the game at the moment if you want to achieve efficiencies and kind of, you know, contradicting that concept of go slow and just put a small subset up, know, automation can actually help you max out that listing potential. It can help you, you know, manage decision making associated with order fulfillment. can do an awful lot to bring efficiency into your business. And I know

As a software company, I'm very sensitive to using the term automation, especially if that also involves AI, because people think, you're trying to take my people away. And I'm not at all. I have this firm belief that automation and any kind of AI machine learning will aid your existing employees so that your existing employees can do what they were brought on to do in the first place, which is retail.

they probably weren't brought on to be logisticians or marketplace experts. They were there to think about merchandising and which products we're going to sell and, you know, supplier relations and all that kind of thing. So let the automation take over and make their life easier. But if a company wants to grow, you've got to bring automation in because they'll just never keep up with the scale.

Rael (36:27.942)
Are you able to give us, guess, an example with a, I don't know, listings or logistics or whatever it is. mean, what are we talking about? What is being automated?

Georgia Leybourne (36:39.214)
Sure, so one of the examples I like to use is when you consider an end -to -end order. So I always like to start with the pushing of the buy button and then thinking about the doorbell ringing at the other end with something being delivered. Any human brain can imagine and think about and work through all of the steps of one order. You might even be able to manage two, maybe even three. But now let's throw 10 at you. Now let's throw 50 at you.

you cannot possibly as a human being start to think about where is my stock? Let's, okay, so I'm going to take a bit of stock out of there. I've got to update it on those marketplaces. Then I've got to figure out, I've got to route it from A to B and now which shipping vendor should I be using? And, hang on that one. and suddenly you get lost. But with automation, it happens like that. The rules engine pre -configured starts to make those decisions.

maps things, routes things, makes sure that it's going to be there on time, communicates about it, mitigates against problems, and that's sublime operational efficiency.

Rael (37:48.454)
Is there is there a decision making example as well? So this is like making sure that stuff gets delivered and it's accurate and on time and I know all that sort of stuff. But is there sort of examples that help you make allocation decisions or anything like

Georgia Leybourne (38:03.854)
Absolutely, there's all kinds of stuff and it's all configurable within the system. There's like a rule, there's a rules engine within the Linworks platform which enables you to update the system if you've got staffing issues somewhere down the line or if you've had a run on a particular stock item you can introduce like safety stock levels that kind of thing and it will help make decisions but alert you along the way. So it's, it helps with decision making and to some small degree it makes some decisions for you but under your control.

Matt Anderson (38:34.939)
And I think, well, I guess related to this whole automation piece and we mentioned the PIMDAM, which is a product information management system, which is central point of truth, really important for retailers. And then we've got AI coming in and then we've got another buzzword just rumbling over their eyes and which is EU digital product passports, which just came onto my radar recently, which is basically

digital token that gives the background of all like the eco credentials of a product all the way through the manufacturing chain it's an EU legislation piece which sounds a nightmare from a you know a back -end IT point of view but surely that could have an opportunity for having a token a token almost associated with a product that has all the content and its history and its manufacturing linked to it is that on your radar at Linnworks?

Georgia Leybourne (39:29.24)
I mean, I can't speak specifically to it, but track and trace and that whole management side of things is a crucial part. So I was just talking to a customer of ours the other day who deals in performance products, gels and proteins and that kind of thing. And they have to manage an additional element of information, which is the batch number so that when they deliver out to athletes of a professional nature,

Rael (39:54.428)
Yeah.

Georgia Leybourne (39:57.45)
if there are any questions, know, drug testing, that kind of thing, they can trace it back to the batch number. So it's all linked to that same concept of track and trace of the heritage and the credibility of the source product. So that kind of thing is all evolving within our product to cater to the different things. mean, anything in the pharmaceutical industry, you have to be able to track and trace. But you've also got sort of the

security of higher value goods as well that you also have to think about and that kind of, know, lot numbers and things.

Matt Anderson (40:35.203)
Yeah, think it could be crypto tokens and NFTs and all that sort of thing. was once a buzzword, that was really, really big. And I think everyone's regretting buying an APE token art. No, I didn't know. But yeah, I bought a Deface piece of art. yeah, anyway, was a mad moment. But anyway.

Rael (40:49.34)
Just you, Matt. Just you.

Rael (40:59.068)
Ha ha ha.

Matt Anderson (41:02.927)
Moving swiftly on, I do think that kind of technology could actually have a really good fit because if you've got that token that fits with a product that you could plug it into, there'd be someone like Real with a far bigger brain than I have to work out how it would work. But I could see that that way of being able to have like the next generation of a barcode fitting with a system like Linworks could be super powerful, I think.

Georgia Leybourne (41:09.954)
Yes.

Georgia Leybourne (41:26.51)
So I think you're touching on two areas here that personally I think are here to stay and are just going to get more and more intense as time goes by. The first is the whole sustainability piece. I know at the moment it is more of a beauty aid than it is anything that's hardcore, but it's going to become more and more important for customers to make sustainable decisions when they're buying, but also for sellers when they're selling. And that's where...

Matt Anderson (41:36.504)
Absolutely,

Georgia Leybourne (41:52.268)
You know, the Amazons of the world have to be careful because this whole packaging, onerous packaging or, you know, multiple deliveries, multiple deliveries for one item. But also the T -Mos and machines have to watch out because, you know, consumers actually don't want to be bringing stuff in from China because they're thinking about the knock on effect on the environment and stuff. So sustainability, it's not going to go away. It's going to become more and more hardcore. So that digital token to be able to track the heritage, I think, you know, has got mileage.

Matt Anderson (41:58.939)
Climate pledge friendly, really.

Rael (42:18.396)
Hmm. Hmm.

Georgia Leybourne (42:23.079)
But on top of that, you you mentioned barcodes and QR codes and NFC tags and RFID and all of this. That's not gone away. It's not going to go away. It's still finding its place and this whole new, phenomenally small, minute RFID sewn into the t -shirt or into the handbag, you know, is coming back.

That in itself is powerful, not only from a track and trace, but also from a stock management perspective. It's huge. So those two bits I totally believe in. But think about all of the noisy bits of technology we've had to navigate over the last 20 years that just came in and everyone was like super excited, it's going to change the world. And actually, you

Matt Anderson (42:55.951)
Absolutely, yep.

Georgia Leybourne (43:17.342)
When was the last time you spoke about beacons in a store?

Rael (43:21.236)
wow. That was good one.

Matt Anderson (43:21.271)
Well yeah exactly, yeah absolutely. mean we Alan and I on previous podcasts we talked about my journey with Facebook. I back in the day, feel old, back in 2012 when Facebook first came out and it was going to change the world and make a better place and now it brought us Donald Trump. Anyway it's moving swiftly on but you know it's funny how technology ebbs and flows isn't it and definitely I think there's a real need on a serious note from like the climate.

I heard on the radio today about this phenomenon of climate trauma. There's a lot of Gen Z younger people that actually have lot of anxiety and having mental health problems, worried about the environment and what's happening with the weather and all those sort of things. So I think as we get more and more amazing floods in Spain that we've had recently, for example, more of these weather events, I think it's only going to be getting more and more.

front and centre of a consumer's buying choice. Is this the right thing for the environment? It's going to be more more important. So think absolutely it's got some mileage, hasn't it?

Georgia Leybourne (44:26.53)
But for us old timers, I'm not sure if I'm allowed to put myself in the same category, but I sense that we're around about the same. The world is so noisy today and there's information overload. And I can't help but think, so I've got three children who fit into the Gen Z category and I don't want to mollycoddle them in any way, or form, but by the same token, I want to give them some perspective on what they're experiencing.

Matt Anderson (44:30.925)
I'll never grow up.

Matt Anderson (44:55.769)
Hmm.

Georgia Leybourne (44:56.332)
because there's just so much out there with social, with the weather, with the climate stuff, with politics. I mean, I can't believe I just mentioned politics on this podcast, my apologies. But it's full on, it's full on like, yeah.

Rael (45:06.032)
Hahaha

Matt Anderson (45:07.431)
I started it too fast, so you're fine.

Matt Anderson (45:14.903)
Yeah, absolutely. think, well, let's bring it back to, I mean, what three things should an organization focus on? We've got all this huge ecosystem of e -commerce. What three things should they focus on before they start trying to expand on marketplaces? Just to give them some clarity. No pressure.

Rael (45:34.898)
quite a bring back to Earth.

Matt Anderson (45:36.247)
Yeah, so bring it, bring bring it.

Georgia Leybourne (45:37.364)
It's like come back down to earth, anybody expands in any way, shape or form, make sure that you've got all your ducks in a row with what you've already got. The worst thing you can possibly do is try and expand when something is already broken in your business. So that would be the first thing. The second thing is, and this is boring and back to basics, but I stand by it. It's not just about technology.

It's about technology, people and process and those three go together. And if you try and tackle one without the other two, you will come unstuck. You have to do the three in tandem. then that, so you've got your, get your basics right. Then you've got your people process technology. And then the third is change management. Bottom up, top down. Cause if you leave somebody behind, something will come

Matt Anderson (46:32.099)
Absolutely, yeah, you've got to align expectations across the whole team. You know, everyone going the same direction. All that complexity you alluded to earlier on, it's very easy to get in a mess in the muddle quickly, isn't it, in a big organisation.

Georgia Leybourne (46:46.092)
And what's lovely is it's actually very easy to render it to a relatively simplistic level if you get that people process and technology in the right balance. But it's also very easy to lose control if you don't take the appropriate steps to get

Rael (46:58.798)
you I'm gonna ask to drill down a little bit on that because I think that's like a really really important point that I think is definitely worth just like you know chatting a few minutes about that I mean what does it mean to sort of bottom up and how do you get people aligned because you know humans are going to be human which is think very different things and different sets of interests yeah yeah what is good or bad look like I guess

Matt Anderson (47:18.949)
Yeah, but we've always done it this way. We've always done it this way.

Georgia Leybourne (47:29.406)
my goodness, you guys know how to ask some tough questions. So I talked about bottom up, top down. So I have a firm belief that you have to get top down buy -in. If you haven't got top down buy -in, then you're onto a non -starter from the beginning. So top down buy -in is the primary. And that means that you've got to have the majority of your executive team in sync.

Rael (47:32.019)
Hahaha

Matt Anderson (47:32.315)
We're not going to give you an easy ride, you can come on our podcast.

Rael (47:36.102)
Hahaha.

Georgia Leybourne (47:55.692)
and believing in what it is that you're trying to achieve as a business. The next is to start sowing the seed at the bottom of the organization so that you get some of these evangelists coming up the organization with passion, with ideas, with creativity, and with a feeling of ownership. Because this is not about the leadership team telling the organization what to do. This is about the leadership team empowering the organization to take charge of their own destiny.

Matt Anderson (47:58.306)
Absolutely,

Georgia Leybourne (48:25.4)
So you've got to do a bit of a sowing of the seed and then you've got to whip your leadership team into shape and make sure that they're all empowering their teams and that they're not, you know, there is a propensity for a leader lacking in confidence to land grab information because they see it as power. And then there are those of us who are way more cavalier and just like, here, here's all the information you need. Now help me make it happen kind of thing.

Rael (48:49.266)
Yeah.

Georgia Leybourne (48:54.902)
And I do think the latter is going to be more conducive to encouraging a change environment. And I've got experience of this even at Linnworks and I occasionally come across pockets of resistance to things that we're trying to achieve. And it's

what's the word? It's about massaging that pocket of resistance to try and get under their skin and bring them along with you. It's not about remonstrating with them. It's not about showing them up. It's about getting them to understand and feel with you what the change could bring and the wealth that that could bring. And it takes time.

Matt Anderson (49:36.495)
Yeah, yeah, mean, people have complex things, aren't they? I mean, you can't just turn them on and off like a computer. You've got to be able to bring them in and some more susceptible to change than others, like you just alluded to.

Rael (49:50.364)
Yeah. And I think as well, what I, this is, at nozzle and sort of previous businesses, but, know, often what you're aiming for is people to disagree, but commit. Right. And so it's fine. Like, in fact, I'd encourage you to disagree. Right. Like that's how you get to good decision -making, but you do need the commitment to come with it. If someone disagrees as well,

Georgia Leybourne (50:11.724)
Yeah. Interestingly, that's one of our drill down values is you not always agree with the direction of the organization, but once we've debated it and we've agreed on the direction, you've got to let it go and you've got to get on board. And if you can't let it go and you can't get on board, then you need to consider an alternative.

Rael (50:15.269)
Okay.

Rael (50:23.046)
right. Exactly.

Rael (50:29.062)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. How hot to do with that.

Matt Anderson (50:30.959)
Yep, yeah. think it's just like I was thinking about a book as a coffee stain book on my desk. It's The Advantage by Patrick Lenaconi. And he talks about a healthy organisation and the need for this healthy tension to people to sort of check and balance. if it goes too far and it gets personal and people are just not on board, what do do at that point, like you say? But yeah, I mean, it's so important to get people on board and people to

feel like they've had their say in some way, shake the direction of the business whilst keeping on that path is important.

Georgia Leybourne (51:07.608)
But it's really interesting because I probably err on the side of, despite the fact that I'm pushy and bold and out there, I love conformity and placidness and people who are nice to each other. And I was having a discussion with somebody the other day and he was encouraging me that, you sometimes we've got to have a little bit of an argy bargy. We've got to have a little bit of a debate and we've got to have a discussion. Get it out there.

Matt Anderson (51:24.154)
Yes.

Matt Anderson (51:31.833)
Yes, a little bit of a tussle, friendly tussle.

Rael (51:33.156)
Yeah.

Georgia Leybourne (51:36.566)
And then we'll come back and we'll, you and I think they're right. You do have to have those moments of confrontation, almost a sanity check that you're going in the right direction.

Rael (51:46.844)
Yes, exactly.

Matt Anderson (51:48.141)
Yeah, I mean, you talked about the cultural differences I have friends over in the States and also I lived in Germany as well. And it's interesting how the Americans will front up and challenge an idea and challenge your thinking in a constructive way often. But sometimes it can be quite direct for the English people, excuse me, would you mind awfully just looking at this for me, you know, whereas Americans is

This is what that you know, Germans like what the hell is this? You know, this isn't working. We need to get we need to get this sorted. So I think that healthy that's a healthy organization that can actually just go hang on a minute. Why are we doing it like this? You know, it's just and without offending, of course. But yeah, I think, you know, I think that's something I've learned from the Americans of having this. Why not? Why can't we do it this way? Attitude is something the English can learn from, think.

Georgia Leybourne (52:43.342)
But I almost consider that to be a gift that my father gave me when he dragged the family over to the States twice, was that opportunity to learn something other than the British way. And it just helps you to then work internationally. I mean, the most challenging culture I've ever worked in was when I was spending time in Shanghai, especially as a woman, because it's a completely different dynamic.

Rael (52:49.33)
That's right.

Rael (53:09.596)
Mm -hmm.

Georgia Leybourne (53:11.983)
I watched that cultural training video several times before my first business trip out there.

Matt Anderson (53:17.279)
Right. Yeah, no, I think it's just a quick anecdote from my father went over to the States and he was trying to set up his business several times pitching for pitching for investment in the UK and people going, no, we don't do it this way. No, no, we've never done it this way. No, no, we've lost six generations have done it this way. Didn't get investment, went out to States. So first pitch he went to the guy wrote him a six figure check and took up a business basically, you know, just like that there and

Rael (53:43.512)
There you

Matt Anderson (53:44.845)
So that's a difference in the creative cultures, isn't it? Yeah, it's the land of opportunity. Hey, why not? Let's do it, you know. But anyway, yeah, carry

Georgia Leybourne (53:45.26)
the lack of opportunity.

Rael (53:51.782)
Yeah, I was gonna say bring it back to to Linux. Can you give us the elevator pitch,

Matt Anderson (54:00.591)
Yes.

Georgia Leybourne (54:02.225)
I can. So Linworks is a SaaS platform. We aim our products specifically at retailers who are selling online across multiple channels. We specialize in marketplace selling and the more the merrier. It's all about getting your product onto the marketplaces.

syncing your stock across those marketplaces, orchestrating the orders from those marketplaces, connecting with the shipping companies so that we can help you with fulfillment. And if you have a warehouse, we've also got that warehouse management piece in there so that the physical flow of goods is also managed on the same data platform with one single view of the truth.

Rael (54:42.525)
Love

Matt Anderson (54:43.516)
And what I really like about Limb Works is the volume. If you're serious about doing volume of audio, have you got a top line stack just for the listeners to give you an idea how much product you guys shift? Because it's a huge amount.

Georgia Leybourne (54:52.141)
Georgia Leybourne (54:57.387)
So there's billions of gross merchandise value going through the platform on an annual basis. So it's pretty good fun to watch the levers go up and down on the different platforms. And it won't surprise you to know that Amazon is the biggest one. Wow, what a surprise.

Matt Anderson (55:16.111)
Yes. So your systems are running hot today on Prime Day then? Wow. Yes.

Georgia Leybourne (55:22.52)
They will be absolutely buzzing today on Prime Day.

Rael (55:24.412)
You look remarkably calm for Prime Day, so yes.

Georgia Leybourne (55:28.291)
I'm on the marketing side rail. If it was Simon or Phil or John sat here, they might be looking a little... No, no, no, they wouldn't be at all. can't... can't do anything.

Rael (55:29.475)
Hahaha!

Matt Anderson (55:36.571)
It's all good. It's all good. Excellent. just as we're coming to the end of our podcast, I'd like to chip in and what's piqued your curiosity recently, Georgia, in the world of e -commerce and they're out real and I'll chip in with what we've seen. But I'm interested to know what's really got your interest at the moment.

Georgia Leybourne (56:02.36)
So going back to the concept of noisiness in the tech space, I've always been fascinated with augmented reality in retail. And I can't quite get my head around it. So I kind of watched on the periphery for a long time. But I kind of want to get a better understanding of the metaverse and gamification and

You know, how do we take the next step in online retail to creating that experiential side of retail? So I've got quite a bit of a fascination around that. I must admit being a bit of an Apple geek, I quite tempted by the Vision Pro launch that happened last week. You know, do I, don't I?

Matt Anderson (56:48.665)
Yes. you're. Real's another Apple fanboy. You've got, mean, look at the smile on his face.

Rael (56:56.033)
Yeah.

Haven't quite got around to the Vision Pro yet, but I'm eyeing it, shall we say. Yes. It's coming.

Matt Anderson (57:03.543)
It's coming soon, it's going soon. I've got some family working at Apple, we can have a chat. We'll see, maybe we'll get them on. But yeah, it's absolutely gamification. Tmoo, we mentioned earlier on that, that's got quite a nice gamification piece within its retail and like the world of gaming as well. People gaming for crypto. There's all sorts of, probably the whole podcast in itself, isn't it really?

And we are also watching Pete's show, Curious Recently.

Rael (57:34.554)
Yeah. So I mean, I'm going for a, guess, non -tech, non -data thing, is simply, which is simply, which is simply Nike coming back to Amazon, right? I mean, that's, that's a thing. Yeah. So Nike is officially rejoining Amazon. I don't know the details of that, but they famously pulled out years ago, focused on D2C and the D2C business hasn't been doing particularly well and there's a lot of pressure to sort of change things

Matt Anderson (57:40.579)
What?

Matt Anderson (57:46.223)
What? Yes.

Georgia Leybourne (57:56.095)
Yeah!

Rael (58:04.36)
And I can just imagine them. Yeah, big time. So I can just imagine the, the Amazon folks, know, basically saying, yeah, they're always.

Matt Anderson (58:04.985)
Yes, it was affecting the share price as well, wasn't it? Yep.

Georgia Leybourne (58:06.296)
When was,

Georgia Leybourne (58:13.614)
So when was I, do you know, I missed that announcement. talking, wow.

Rael (58:15.428)
Yeah, last week, I think last week, something like that. Yeah, yeah. So

Matt Anderson (58:18.895)
because my, my, what, that.

Georgia Leybourne (58:21.399)
I'm going to have to change my presentation because I actually used their pulling out of Amazon in a presentation recently, so I must take note.

Rael (58:24.232)
There you go. Check it out.

Matt Anderson (58:26.042)
Ha ha.

Matt Anderson (58:29.785)
Yeah, no, think and yeah, it's we've got Daniel Walsh in our team. He's ex Amazon and ex Nike. So perhaps we'll probably bring him on because as I understand this, then he's the expert clearly. But as I understand the story when was like Nike was like, no, no, we're not going to go and play with you, Amazon. We're far too fashionable to be on Amazon. And now it's sort of one of those decisions which coming back to bite the bite the brand really and yeah, tell between the legs go back to back to Amazon because

Rael (58:37.299)
there you go.

Rael (58:51.325)
Yeah.

Matt Anderson (58:59.619)
to be there but I think what Daniel will really bring into it, like the world of fashion is if you're selling on Amazon seasonal products which are there for a few months and then you discontinue, just don't really work with the flywheel, it's counterintuitive isn't it with rank. So looking at how Nike can actually have

Rael (59:18.172)
Yeah, good point.

Matt Anderson (59:24.412)
which is an evergreen range of products and selling on Amazon. think that's going to be the key to do it. So I think needs are considered strategy, but certainly there again because I think the biggest thing that's hurting Nike is the lack of awareness. You know that marketing element of marketplaces of not being on the platform just to be front of mind and even if they're doing DSP or Amazon advertising or whatever it is just to keep that awareness up. OK, so the.

Rael (59:27.078)
Yeah.

Rael (59:47.836)
Yeah,

Matt Anderson (59:52.389)
because it's a cult brand, isn't it, really?

Georgia Leybourne (59:54.338)
But also a key word for any of these retailers is agility and they have got to be so agile to navigate the different ebb and flow of things that are happening. And one retailer I'm always super impressed by is Argos, who, you know, it's like they go out of Vogue and then back into Vogue just by, you know, changing the way they operate. It's just, it's fascinating to watch some of these.

Rael (01:00:16.815)
Yeah, yeah, it's a good shot.

Georgia Leybourne (01:00:22.294)
traditional retailers that we all remember of old, you know, growing or not as the case may be.

Matt Anderson (01:00:29.603)
Yeah, yeah, I think, well, think from my point of view, bring it back to the data and some of this geeking out. We've been digging into brand analytics and the lifetime value stats, which are surfacing there within Amazon. It's very close to Real's heart and expertise piece, really. But what I've been digging into is looking around that profitability piece about how can we rank efficiently.

Rael (01:00:48.636)
Yes.

Matt Anderson (01:00:57.453)
on Amazon to drive that organic rank because that's higher organic rank, that's where your profitability is. And using the product opportunity explorer to look at which keywords we should be ranking for, how many sales should we be making on those terms, and really digging into that just to get a system in place so we can rank really quickly and efficiently on the right keywords that are relevant for products. So it's quite a, know,

we could go into a bit more depth on an SEO podcast in the future. But I think it's definitely an area that we've got to sort of as an agency and brands have got to get more more efficient at identifying those keywords and ranking really quickly so they're profitable for a lifetime on Amazon or eBay or wherever really.

Rael (01:01:43.708)
Yeah, it's funny with the Amazon dashboard, it's like the first version is kind of like 90 % of the stuff, like the data you need to put together a coherent story, but some crucial stuff's kind of still missing, or at least you don't know how they're calculating it or the definition or whatever it is. So you got to, you know, play around, but it's a, it's a fun time trying to figure all that stuff out. I've spent many an hour trying to do that.

Matt Anderson (01:01:51.575)
Yes.

Matt Anderson (01:02:03.297)
Yeah.

Georgia Leybourne (01:02:04.534)
So you know how earlier on I said that as a marketeer, I know where my strengths lie and my weaknesses. I use an agency for all that kind of thing because it's not my area of expertise. So my advice to anyone is listening is know where your strengths lie. And if you get confused on that bit, call these guys.

Rael (01:02:11.809)
All right. There you go. There you

Matt Anderson (01:02:12.434)
Yes.

Rael (01:02:23.176)
That's right.

Matt Anderson (01:02:24.111)
Yes. Well, mean, absolutely. listeners, guys, this is not just don't just listen to us get involved. Feel free to use the hashtag Ecom Insights on LinkedIn or socials or TikTok. We're on most of the social media and Tinted web, aren't we? So wherever you're looking, whether it's on YouTube or Spotify, do remember to subscribe. Click that bell.

and so you never miss any future episodes because we'll be drilling down into a lot of these topics we've touched today. So don't miss out.

Rael (01:02:58.96)
Yep, Georgia has been fantastic having you. We've covered a lot of ground in a lot of different spaces. And it's just brilliant to talk to someone who's knowledgeable in multiple areas. So thank you so

Matt Anderson (01:03:10.723)
Yep, if you. Absolutely, absolutely. If you've got any questions for us or Georgia at Limewoats, do feel free to get in touch or write us an email at ecom. Hashtag insights are optimised on the code UK. Far on those questions and we'll get back to you as well. But thanks for listening guys and thank you so much Georgia. Appreciate taking time out on Prime Day to talk to us.

Georgia Leybourne (01:03:11.842)
had a blast it's been like meeting up with a couple of old mates quite frankly.

Rael (01:03:14.172)
Ha ha ha ha.

Georgia Leybourne (01:03:41.026)
You're very welcome. It's been a pleasure. Thank you for having

Matt Anderson (01:03:44.141)
I'm looking forward to seeing you in person soon as well at the next event.

Georgia Leybourne (01:03:47.948)
Absolutely.

Rael (01:03:49.691)
And that's a wrap, I think.

Rael (01:03:57.401)
That's your line, Matt. Sorry, yes.

Matt Anderson (01:04:02.274)
Okay, thanks a lot for listening guys and until next time keep thriving in the world of e -commerce